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So for the amusement and hopefully benefit of anyone out there that may be considering buying their first kit or building their first guitar (particularly the ones with little to no experience with tools or wood), I decided to write a little story in my spare time...

I love guitars. I've always loved them... From the moment I picked up my first guitar, I was obsessed and drawn to the instrument. I wanted to know as much as I could about them and what made them tick. Naturally when I got a little older, I realized that these guitars didn't just sprout up from the ground. Someone somewhere out there was making them. The beauty of Google eventually helped me find luthiery and subsequently this forum. It was fun reading up on the topic and seeing many of the discussions and conflicts in theory. I lurked here and on some other sites absorbing information and building my own set of beliefs regarding guitar and luthiery. Eventually I had found myself with some cash in hand and I decided to go ahead and try my hand at building my first guitar.

But how best to go about it? I had heard several discussions about building from a serviced kit vs. an unserviced kit and also what kind of woods to use and what tools were needed for building. These are issues that there seem to be an endless number of conflicting opinions about. I read and read and read and formulated a list of tools that I needed (or THOUGHT I needed). Even though I read a lot, I didn't bother doing a whole lot of actual research on the matter. I bought chisels, planes, a band saw, a drill press, a random orbital sander, files, etc. I must have totaled over $3000 in tools alone that month all before I had a piece of wood to use them on and before I even knew how to use and maintain them. I also bought a popular book (Tradition and Technology) that I skimmed once after I bought the tools and before I bought my kit.

Now that I was somewhat fully equipped to build, it was time to choose what kind of guitar to build, where to get the kit from, what kind of kit to buy, and which woods to use. Mind you, this was all being thought about AFTER buying the tools. We all love good things and we all love the idea of a masterpiece. I am certainly no exception to the rule, though I might take it a bit further than most. I decided to go with a kit from LMI mainly because of their Kit Wizard, which let you customize the features. I decided to go with a service OM kit and I selected Master Grade Engelmann Spruce for the top and 1st Grade Cocobolo for the back and sides. I selected basically the highest grades and most expensive woods for just about everything else from the bridge to the fingerboard slots. Expensive = Good, right?

So my package from LMI came and I quickly opened it up and set it down on my makeshift bench (a slab of plywood on top of a tool box in my laundry room). At the time I was working so I would only be able to work on it on weekends. So the weekend came and I went downstairs to work on the guitar. I popped in Robbie O'Brian's DVD and skimmed through the first few steps. I was now ready to start building. There was only one problem. Over the course of the week, the sides had sprung back enough so that they didn't match the plans. I hadn't made a mold because I didn't watch the DVD until the day I was going to work on the guitar and I hadn't paid mind to humidity issues either because I had skimmed over those parts so now my sides were sprung back and my top and back were warping. So what am I to do? I weighed the top and back down with heavy books and ran out to Home Depot to buy some plywood to make a mold. I quickly encounter another problem in the fact that I had watched the DVD, but obviously I didn't pay attention to it and didn't know how to use the bandsaw because I glued 3 layers of 3/4 plywood together before trying to cut it in the bandsaw. For those of you that haven't tried this, generally a Ridgid 14" bandsaw is not happy when you do this... Particularly when it wasn't set up properly in the first place and I knew nothing about that since I had bought it and never really read that you generally didn't want to just use it out of the box without adjustments....

So 2 bandsaw blades, a lot of burnt plywood and a good amount of foul odors later, I finally had a crudely cut mold. But then there was the problem that it was crudely cut, so what does one do? Well if you're me in that situation, something in you possesses you to take the entire thing to a spindle sander to shape it the rest of the way. Those of you who are experience probably already see where this is going... Long story short, I spend a good hour trying to make everything nice and smooth and I end up with 2 sides that are not even close to symmetrical anymore and don't match the plans. Solution? Well I went back out to Home Depot to get more plywood and do the same thing again... THE SAME EXACT WAY... By the way, I found out a few weeks later after rewatching the DVD in detail that Robbie hadn't glued everything up and thrown the whole thing in the bandsaw...

Finally I now have a somewhat symmetrical mold that somewhat matches the plans, but my sides still don't fit in the mold because they had sprung back. Try as I might, I simply cannot seem to push them in without cracking them so now I'm forced to bend them again. Unfortunately while tooling up, I hadn't bought a pipe or iron so what do I do? The logical people in the group would probably just go out and buy one or make a makeshift one. I decided to try to bend it with a curling iron... Yes, a hair curling iron.. So not only do I have absolutely no experience bending wood, but I'm attempting to bend a set of Cocobolo sides on something that is meant to bend hair, not wood. On top of that I haven't shelled out for a vice so I'm holding the iron to the wood with my right hand while using my left hand and the ground to try to bend it. Guess what happens? CRACK!

Luckily I didn't crack the side in half, so I proceeded to go ahead with a sloppy superglue job to bring the side back together. What do I do now? I decide to just go ahead without a mold at all instead of getting an iron and doing things properly. I glue up the sides together with the blocks on each end and then realize that I should have probably done at least a LITTLE bit of trimming down because now I have a lot of wood to take off to bring to flush to the blocks. Again, I wish I had paid attention to the DVD because something in me possessed me to try to bring it flush with a combination of a hack saw, a dozuki saw, and a coping saw... Needless to say I found myself overcutting and then proceeded to sand the entire thing down on a radius for a whole day to get good edges... Now the guitar is really thin from the extra sanding, but that's that.. time to give myself some encouragement, learn nothing from my experience and move onto the next step to suffer from the same mistakes.

It's time to work on the back. Since my guitar's shape has changed, I have to see if the back still even fits (it would've probably been a good idea to check this before I glued those two sides together, huh?). It does, but only at a slant, but what can I do, right? Let's run with it. So I cut the braces, shape them on the radius dish, make the back strip and glue it all on. I could've sworn I remembered everything from my skimmed reading and watching of the DVD. Wait... Now I have my back strip running parallel in grain to the back instead of across and my braces have been cut the wrong way grain-wise and I have massive runout. I haven't rounded off the corners either. Time to fix it.. Oh wait.. I already glued the back onto the sides... Oh well, what can I do, right? It's my first guitar after all... nobody said it was going to be perfect despite the ridiculous amounts of money I spent on really good wood...

Now I left a little overhang, but I feel like taking it off now because that's now how a guitar should be. I vaguely recall hearing people talking about using a router so that sounds like a good idea and I bought a router so I might as well use it. Wow... this router is heavier than I thought it'd be. How do people do this? Oh well, let's give it a shot. I put the router up to the wood and turn it on for the first time. HOLY CRAP! Suffice to say I got a rude awakening from the power of the thing and I was completely unprepared for the sheer power and noise. After going out of control for a split second, I manage to turn the thing off before I damage anything. I guess I should clamp my guitar down for this (I didn't have it clamped before)... Notice at this point, there's no reference to the book or DVD because I'm trying to feel it out for God knows whatever reason... It might have been easier if I had a router table... Or if I had paid attention to all these people that talk about routers saying that the box would say LAMINATE TRIMMER as opposed to 2HP PLUNGE ROUTER. Details, details... So there I am with my 2HP router in hand, guitar clamped down with 2 wooden cam clamps and a flush cut bit being completely unaware of how a router should be operated. I think most people will predict that this won't end well and it didn't...

I'll end this story there because that's where the story actually ends. I gouged out a good piece of my side when the router went out of control, got pissed off, and put the entire project down for a few months. A bit later down the road, I registered to attend a 3 week course at Vermont Instrument Makers, where the instructors prevented me from making a lot of mistakes and quickly corrected the ones I did make even though I was probably one of the worst students they've ever had. I learned a good amount of patience and the value of keeping costs down on the first few builds. I came out with a guitar, a better understanding of luthiery, and the realization that I had well over $2000 worth of tools that I probably didn't need at all...

For those of you that are looking to build their first guitar or indeed have already ordered or started their first, I would really recommend that you take things slowly. It's easy to get excited or overestimate your abilities. Take the time to buy a book or DVD first and study it before doing anything else. DON'T SKIM!!! A lot of my mistakes if not all of them could have been avoided by simply not skimming and doing some proper research step by step. You may read this and just write me off as an idiot, and I'll certainly agree that in retrospect I was, but regardless of how extreme my case was many people make similar mistakes (though they probably do less damage and learn from them faster). Thinking back, I'm really fortunate to even have my fingers considering how dangerously I was using these tools... Another thing I'd like to note is that if you're starting out, really take advantage of the great advice people have to offer on this forum. Don't just read it, but think about it and realize that people say what they say for a reason. I wrote off a lot of people on this forum and dismissed them and now when I look back, I honestly do wish I hadn't.

Despite how embarassing it is for me, I decided to write this not only because I had free time, but in hopes that others will learn from my own experiences. If I could do things again, I'd do them very differently... I'd have done my research first, then bought the wood, and bought the tools as I needed them as opposed to the other way around. Even though it would have taken me longer than buying them all at once, I would've realized what exactly I needed and why I needed it, leading me to make better decisions overall.

Anyways, I hope you guys had a laugh or two and I hope others may have gotten something out of this. ^^;; This forum is great and I'm really thankful for how much I am learning each day from reading.

Confession is good for the soul.

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Wisdom is justified by her children

Nice story, Michael! Seems you've had a lot of education recently, and not just in lutherie! Sometimes a little humble pie can be a good thing. I'm amazed at how a piece of wood that will only do what it dang well pleases can bring a grown man to the brink of tears. But not so often anymore.

I'm glad you didn't lose any fingers.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Oh my yes, please do read up on how to use your power tools safely! Wood can be replaced, fingers not so. A bandsaw pushed past its limit usually quits with a broken blade, but other power tools won't be so forgiving. Kickback, for example, can be very dangerous. As can a stalled blade. Please do read up on how to use those nice tools you bought.

Nice, Michael. I hope lots of new builders read your story. It is so easy to do as you did, and take off without understanding the whole process. As you said, the key is to read about the whole process before cutting the first piece of wood, or gluing the first joint. Make sure you know about humidity control, and peripheral things, which are not covered in much detail in the books I read. It takes some digging to get it all.

Good on you for taking the time to write this up.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Michael !! I have to be honest, I was laying down double on the floor laughing, this was soooo funny.

I could see how you stood there with the "hair iron" trying to bend the wood, and as the 2HP router went war with you.

I am on my first to, the good points for me is that I am a carpenter, so I am used to machines etc, allthough never used a router before either. and I agree, they scream. !! .
The best thing for me so far has been that the darn postal service is slow as h... so I have time to think through every move before doing them.

Just dont give up, you have the tools, wish is more than most have, so now it seem to me all you need to buy is patience

Lars.

Yeah.. it's pretty funny even for me looking back on the entire experience. ^^;; It's been about a year since then, I think and I've grown a LITTLE BIT more patient. I still make some silly mistakes, but not half as bad as that fiasco.

Admittedly, I still have trouble with some of the power tools and I tend to depend more on hand tools simply because I feel more control with them even though they take longer. I'm working on my comfort level with power tools, though and it's slowly coming along.

Regarding attempting to bend on the curling iron... My sister was pretty annoyed when she wanted to curl her hair and found residue from the cocobolo on her iron. It's not something I'd recommend anyone to do. Girls can get pretty evil when you mess with their beauty products.

Michael, it’s obvious to me the whole problem that you had was that you bought those DVDs. How can you concentrate when you’re listening to music? *Sheesh!*

Seriously, glad to hear you’ve learned from your mistakes.

I have to disagree somewhat with your conclusions though, and I know I’ll be chastised for this because it does seem that most people here are serious planners, but people learn in different ways. I learned a long time ago that my brain is simply incapable of planning. It hurts and I’ll simply not learn a thing and most likely throw the whole project in the “Do not finish” pile.

I am sure that I will hit issues and I am sure to take some steps out of order, but I have to simply attack the project much as you did, although I must say I am saving the better wood for later.

But your experience is valuable for those who can learn from it. Thanks for posting.

A question for you… how did you like the Vermont school? It’s about 10 minutes from where I vacation and one of these years I’ll have to stop in. I think the price compared to the class length is an outstanding value and it’s on my list to consider when and if I decide to take a class.

Well the major reason I would advise that people plan is so that they can keep their costs down by not getting unnecessary things. For instance, I could've easily saved over $2000 had I taken the time to really look into what was needed and why it was needed. I bought a lot of tools when I could've used something else for the same purpose or in many other instances, I simply bought the wrong type of tools (for instance, not all planes are created equal) for the purpose they were required for.

I absolutely loved my time at Vermont Instruments. In terms of bang for the buck, I don't see a better deal out there, especially since the $3000 (now $3300, I believe) also covers your housing for the 3 weeks as well as material costs. You can pretty much show up with nothing but a little money for food in your hand and you'd be set to go since they have everything there. The curriculum there also focuses on using hand tools quite often and using jigs as little as possible so you actually end up learning how to build rather than learning how to throw things into one jig after another. We learned a lot of theory and I really liked having the freedom to select my own woods (mine was Cedar/EIRW), body shape and bracing pattern as well as learning to carve my own neck. I think the icing on the cake was the fact that you came out of the course with a few coats of finish on your guitar (something many courses don't offer) and the option to install electronics if you wanted. In total we had 6 students when I was there with 2 instructors (George and Adam) so there was a ridiculous amount of personal attention. I'm sure anyone else that has attended the 3-week course at VTI would also highly recommend it as it is not only a great and thorough curriculum, but an absurdly great deal financially speaking.

Perfect. Thanks!

Any time spent on "voicing" the top? To me, this is the great mystery and where, if such a thing exists, the true magic lies in building.

We did actually do some tapping and we learned theory regarding harmonics, resonance, sound waves, behavior of the soundboard, etc. Though we did learn a good deal of theory regarding it, much of it was said in passing for us to explore on our own after the class and I believe for good reason.

Disclaimer: The following is just my personal view of the class as a person who attended it. These are not necessarily the views of Vermont Instruments. If you'd like to know more directly from them, you can send them an email and ask.

First of all, there really doesn't seem to be a great deal of practicality in spending a lot of time trying to get someone who's never built a guitar to understand the concept and recognize what they're hearing, much less actually apply it. The class for good reason has a strong focus on the actual physical process of guitar construction and tangible theory (ie: calculating fret spacing at certain scale lengths) because it is first and foremost important for a person to actually be able to build a proper guitar before worrying at all about controlling the factors regarding tone. There is always time once you've learned how to build a guitar to then go out and explore for yourself.

Secondly, voicing tops and tap tuning are currently not science. Research and technology are slowly getting us to the point where we probably soon will be able to consider them definite sciences, but the vast majority of luthiers aren't doing analysis involving frequencies and actual numbers, but rather relying on experience, visceral sense, and a developed palette. A beginner does not have this palette to begin with so there is no reference, making any information gained practically useless. George does encourage us to keep a record in our heads about what we're hearing in order to build that palette, but until you have numbers on a piece of paper, it's still only as accurate as your memory. I do, however, believe that this will change in the coming days, especially with wonderful resources like Strobosoft out there allowing for better and more consistent analysis.

Lastly, the concept of voicing tops is still a controversial one and even professional luthiers disagree over not only its validity, but also what a person should be looking for. I think it'd be somewhat irresponsible for any place of education to teach an unproven concept as fact rather than what it is, conjecture and theory. That being said, there are instructors that have a focus in these more advanced theories (Somogyi comes to mind here...). Vermont Instruments has a very specific focus and goal in giving new builders a well-rounded education that is based on practical and applicable concepts to provide a strong foundation for future learning. To this extent, George does a fantastic job of really cutting through a lot of the BS and helping his students to focus on things in order of their importance. Given the number of factors that can potentially affect the sound of your guitar, you can honestly build a great guitar with good fundamentals and without ever learning a thing about voicing the top, but it's a lot harder to build a great guitar when you don't know how to carve a neck or space your strings properly.

I personally really liked and respected George's approach and view on things and I definitely appreciate the fact that the school is honest in its goals. As it states on their own website, they're not interested in helping students create masterpieces. Their interest lies in teaching fundamentals while making you aware that these advanced theories and concepts are out there for you to look into and I think that's a very great and respectable stance for a school to have.

I'm impressed that you've managed to develop such strong convictions after a year of building. A bit presumptuous methinks, and I pretty much disagree with your conclusion, but that's just me. Thanks for your insight to the school. It is valuable.

Rob

I think I misworded my post. Let me see if I can explain what I meant this way... Take my particular class for example. Of the 6 people, we had:
1 guy who had built a classical on his own before, but doesn't really play
1 professional musician
3 SOMEWHAT experienced players (Myself being one of them...)
1 guy who didn't even know how to tune a guitar, much less play one

Of the 6, probably 2 came with some idea of what they wanted their guitar to sound like and both referred to guitars we either heard or owned. For some of the other people, you could ask if they were looking for a "bright" sounding guitar or a "warm" sounding guitar and they didn't even know what "bright" and "warm" meant in terms of tone.

So there you have some people that don't even know what a "warm" guitar sounds like as opposed to a "bright" guitar standing in front of a pile of wood tapping tops... Sure, they hear sounds, but what exactly are they getting out of it? Do they have anything to refer back to? I think it's clear at that point in the game, the entire concept of voicing the top is somewhat meaningless and has little PRACTICAL application for that person.

As I did state, we were advised to try to keep the things we did and heard throughout the build in our heads so that we could start to make reference points and associations for future builds, but on a first build, I think voicing the top isn't something that one should concern himself with. There are just too many other factors to worry about first. Basically, one should learn how to build A guitar before he can even BEGIN to worry about worrying how to start controlling the factors to build predictably build A SPECIFIC guitar.

Michael,

I think your post original post was perfectly clear and I see that you are taking the high road.


Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Frankly, Michael, I think you are dead on. Your teachers were too. you have to develop the feel of the wood, the ear for the sounds, and the understanding of what it all means to do much more than make a guess at tuning a top. Building ot a successful plan is a good way to go, and, as you said, feel everything, and try to remember, take notes, etc. Just getting the sequence right alone is important in the building of a guitar, and the basics are learned by following a plan. Any plan that has been successful.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I agree that his post was clear - i just happen to disagree with it.

I don't think i understand how a professional musician or even a modestly accomplished hack would have much difficulty understanding the tone and playability they prefer in a guitar. Not thinking about tone is akin to saying that you should ignore the style of music you play and don't worry about long scale or short scale, finger style or fretboard width and just build one.

I guess i can sum up my view this way...

There's a slew of ways to attack building. Some people prefer to start with a kit. That in no way makes it unwise to bend your own sides on your first guitar. Will you understand the different ways that 200 species of wood will react to heat and pressure? Not entirely, but it doesn't mean you can't accomplish the goal.

I'd dare say that there's a fair passal of builders here who haven't a clue about the science behind bending wood. There's those who claim steaming wood doesn't work and there are those who do it. There's those who wonder why you'd spend years drying out wood and then soaking it to bend it and there's the camp that think to do anything less will never work.

So in my opinion, to ignore building for tone, even with the first, does no service to the final product.

The decision to not voice the top on a first build is not a decision to ignore tone. It is, however, a decision to take your mind off one particular variable that contributes to the overall tone and the reason you're taking your mind off it is simply because you do not yet have the experience to harness it to suit your purpose. I think a first time builder that is tapping his soundboard can no more predict the resulting sound of the finished product than a first time builder that is not. If you believe otherwise, then you're of course entitled to that opinion, but I can certainly say that of the 6 of us in that class, not a single one knew how their guitar would sound until it was finally strung up so that's what my experience has shown me.

I'm not saying that it's unwise to tap a top the first time around. I'm saying it's probably somewhat presumptuous to assume that tapping the top at that stage in your career will somehow make your end product a little more predictable. And if the end product is not any more predictable, how can you say that you're paying any more mind to the tone than the guy who's not tapping, but knows just as little as you about how the guitar will turn out? Also, to say that not tapping soundboards is ignoring tone is also akin to saying that luthiers who don't believe in tapping soundboards are ignoring tone, which is simply not true. I would think that if voicing the soundboard was somehow such a major factor in predicting and controlling the tone of the resulting instrument, the concept would be much more universally embraced than it currently is. Obviously a lot of luthiers just feel that it makes no difference and if even professionals cannot see a use in it in many instances, why on earth should a beginner spend any significant amount of time dwelling on the issue? I would think there are plenty of other things to worry about on a first build than sitting there blindly analyzing sounds and blindly adjusting them with no real idea as to how it will affect the end product.

You are right in that everyone tackles things differently. There's no real right or wrong way to approach education in lutherie. There are only different ways. What I say is a reflection of my own opinions based on my own experiences. You may believe that my opinions are somehow presumptuous and you may be right in saying so, but I honestly don't believe they are. I believe my views are pretty realistic and down-to-earth in terms of the abilities of beginning luthiers. If beginners could learn to accurately voice their tops and control the production of an instrument to match an envisioned instrument, then there would be no distinction between a novice and an experienced builder. Some things in Lutherie can only come from experience that no teacher or class can provide. I simply happen to believe accurately and deliberately voicing instruments is one of these things. In regard to doing a service for your end product, I really believe that once you learn to let go of the end product and focus more on the process, you'll see it's not such a bad thing to take things one step at a time.

Nicely said, Michael. Burying yourself in the science of the build on the first guitar will, most likely, not result in a better build than if you just pay attention to detail, and make sure you do not over-build. I believe that's the mistake that most new builders make. It is the one place where you can find out from others where to depart from the plan a bit. I was able to find out a great deal of information here at OLF that really made the difference in my first build. I tapped on my guitar and the parts as I was building, but it meant little to me. "Tap", that sounds nice! "Tap", that sounds dead!

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Here's my final rant on this subject...

I think Michael has misconstrued my simple question about voicing and somehow focused on tap tuning. Voicing, and maybe it's just in my mind, incorporates tap tuning, chladni patterns, bracing shapes and configuration, wood species, thickness, stiffness, size, depth, and very likely, the color of my underwear while building.

If any of those are important to the sound, color, tone, sustain then in my opinion they are worth paying attention to from the onset. Will I get what I want when done? Never said it was guaranteed, nor did I imply that I could. I've read enough comments from professional builders to tell that they can be surprised by a guitar exceeding their expectations or disappointed in the results.

I think that the thing that bothered me the most is the assumption that a newbie can't handle anything more than gluing together a kit. Sorry, but there's no rocket science here. A floating, fully adjustable neck is just a couple of more pieces to think about putting together. I can't tell you the number of times the response to a question I posted has been, "You should start with a kit...".

"Don't bend your own sides, you might crack it. Start with a kit.".
"Don't think about alternative bracing, the bracing that comes with a kit will work just fine."
"Don't try lattice bracing on a too thin top, start over or use a kit...".

Don't ask questions because you might not understand the answer? Don't try it because it might not work?

Michael, let me put it this way.. in your initial post in this thread you talk about how you were surprised by the power of the router before it ate your guitar... don't you think you learned something from that? Let's ignore the wisdom of using the best wood you could for your first build, but wouldn't it have been prudent to ask questions first? And if you had, would you have learned more about the tool you needed by making the mistake you did or if the answer was "don't buy any tools, you wouldn't understand what I'm talking about... just get a kit you can glue together...".

Well, if you're talking about all of that combined, then yes, we did learn about "voicing our tops" to an extent. We learned that some woods contribute to brighter sounds and others to warmer sounds. We learned how different bracing patterns affect the overall tone of a guitar and how the body shape and size also affect the sound.

In that case, I did misunderstand your post. When I think of voicing a top, I am thinking primarily about tapping the top and shaping your braces according to what you hear.

It's not that I don't believe a beginner can do more than gluing a kit together. I just believe that a beginner should focus on things in order of their importance. All beginners are not created equal. For many people, just gluing a kit together is no easy task while for others, it's a breeze. Certainly if you yourself feel that you can do more on the first try, then go ahead and do it, but that's your personal situation and ability. I'm all for bending your own side on the first try or making mistakes because you do learn from them. The thing about voicing a top, however, is that there are no such thing as a wrong tone whereas there is definitely a wrong side bend. Voicing is a matter of preference... You can't really compare it to something like bending a side or making a saddle.

I never intended this to become some sort of debate. I merely intended to explain why I believed it was a good idea not to dwell too much on the issue of voicing from an educational standpoint in the context of a 3-week class.

Voicing, it would seem to me, is what differentiates a factory guit from a hand made. And, as some famous man said once, "A smart man learns from his mistakes, a brilliant man learns from others' mistakes".

I'm currently struggling with voicing and can't think of a better scenario to learn that in a class format with folks that know what they're doing, be it tap tuning, chladni patterns, whatever. What would take a book's worth of words to describe on the written page could be expressed with a simple tap of the knuckles on a pre-made top prepped to show a certain characteristic (e.g. you could have an over braced example, under braced example prepped and ready to go).

Anyone can make an overbuilt guitar at home from a kit (so long as they take baby steps, even you Michael) - In fact, I may have just completed one (not strung up yet, finish is hardening still). I would hope that for $3k I'd benefit from the instructors' experience to learn to make a guitar that's much closer to what the pros are making than what the factories are pumping out.

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I do agree with you that voicing is what ultimately will differentiate a hand-built guitar from a factory job. However, you have to keep in mind that it is a 3-week class for beginners, most of whom have never built a guitar before. In these 3 weeks, you have to get a group of first time builders to build a guitar, get a few coats of finish it, and string it up as well as explain all the processes and reasons for them in-between. It's really not an easy task the first time around and things can get pretty hectic as it is already with students working down to the wire...

Truth be told that you could have a 3-week class ONLY on voicing and it really wouldn't be enough time to get everyone to fully understand all the factors involved. The current curriculum at VTI is designed to ensure that students leave with a completed instrument in those 3-weeks. Because of this, sometimes you can't sit on a topic for too long. This isn't to say that the issues were ignored, but rather, we were informed of them and left to further pursue them on our own after the class.

People obviously have differing opinions, but I personally don't see how you can teach students to produce something beyond a factory guitar before they even have the ability to produce a factory guitar. As I said before, we had a guy in our class that had never even tuned a guitar in his life. You think you can take a person with that level of experience and in 3 weeks teach him not only how to build a guitar and set it up (along with explaining the history and theories behind it), but also how to voice a guitar accurately by tapping it? Be my guest..

A curriculum can't be designed with assumptions in mind. You can't assume that the person knows how to use a drill or a bandsaw. Apparently you can't even assume that the person wanting to build a guitar knows how to tune one or play one. As it is, we had people working until the very last day and even taking up the grace day given. I really doubt we would have all come out with finished guitars if we had spent any more time than we did attempting to accurately voice them. Sometimes, you just have to run with it because there is a deadline to be met.

If we were talking about a 6-month class or even a 3-month class, I would agree that a significant amount of time should be covered trying to get students to get a better understanding of voicing a guitar to produce predictable results. In 3-weeks, I just see it as a somewhat unreasonable... That's the final thing I'll have to say on the matter. If you want to discuss the class curriculum, it's really best to contact Vermont Instruments and George will be better able to explain what they teach, what their goals are, and why their curriculum is the way it is. As I said, I do not and cannot speak for the school... only my own beliefs and experiences. I do believe this argument is sparked mainly by differences in what we consider to be "voicing" a guitar which in itself is yet another issue...

Michael, I don't consider this an argument but just a difference in opinion.

You are absolutely correct that the goal of someone wanting to take a class should be discussed with the instructor prior to taking the class. I probably would have seriously considered taking a class like this, but this discussion has helped me to further clarify what my own goal would be.

To be honest through, I am finding most of what I want on the net regarding voicing. It's scattered and sometimes conflicting and took a while for some of it to gel in my mind, but I am building my own opinion based on what logically makes sense. Of course, there's always the little detail of proving it out...

Good luck to you in your own adventure and watch out when you start to get serious with them power saws...

Rob

I have a router and a laminate trimmer (bought them when I was doing speaker cabinets). I only use the laminate trimmer on guitars for a few reasons...

First of all my router required an adaptor to use 6mm bits, and they required extreme tightening to prevent the "random automatic height adjustment" syndrome. Which means if I needed to change bits it's much harder to loosen the bit. The 12mm bit does not require as much tightening and almost never have the automatic random height adjustment problem. Then also the router weights over 5Kg which is pretty heavy since it requires 2 hands for operation and I was afraid the guitar could not handle the weight.

The laminate trimmer is limited to using 6mm bits and they do not have the power of a router but I can hold the laminate trimmer with one hand, and have really good control and if I needed to take heavier cuts I just make multiple light passes. Also height adjustment is a snap with the laminate trimmer, and it's not random automatic either.

I might use the router however if I am doing electrics like trimming the body to template or routing out cavities but for acoustics I stick with laminate trimmer.

I don't have a band saw even if I did have money for one I just can't find a place for it... my room is very cramped. I thought about buying one of those 10" bandsaw but I heard they don't cut straight and doesn't have any power at all (it has a 1/5 hp motor) and besides most of the curved cuts I could do with a jig saw and the straight cut (like scarf joints) I plan to cut with a handsaw then finish up with a wagner safety planer.

_________________
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Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Hi Michael,
I started my first kit build in October - the StewMac Dread kit. I plugged away on it for about 2 months on my own. I spent a bunch of money and didn't know what I was doing and also went way too fast. So, I feel a lot of your pain through my own mistakes.

I found a local luthier who evaluated the build. Through about a dozen 6 hour sessions, I have taken the body apart, bracing, kerfing, etc. We are now in the process of putting humpty dumpty back together again.

It has been a much tougher road repairing this build, but I am gaining a lot of the skills I needed in the first place to make some decent guitars. It's hard to resist the temptation to rush because every beginner wants to finish their first one.

Anyways, I hope the class you took has inspired you as much as my weekly lessons.

-Charles